My why is Santa in drag rant.

[putrid]

Here's another one of those threads subject to personal taste and observation. If you disagree with me please don't hold back, post in and let everyone know. No one needs to walk on eggshells around me. ( but I do keep the rocks handy. JK LOL )

Why is Santa in drag? There are wedding dresses more masculine than some of the stuff I've seen folks hand made Santa's dressed in. It's not just the color. I've seen some real old Santa's dressed in mauve and pastels and they still were masculine as a whole. I saw a hand made Santa a wile back that was a look-a-like in the face to a girl I dated in high school. If she wore a fake beard and mustache LOL. So even Santa's face gets a feminine make-over at times. There's hand made Santa's with more jewelry than a red carpet diva. Some of them are covered with more lace and jewelry than Madonna at a costume party. As I typed in before this is all personal taste. I made a Santa for my mother in law. She wanted a mauve coat and lots of roses. As soon as I can get my camera to take pictures of the old pictures I have I'll post some of the Santa's I've made in the past. Even the rose covered mauve one. Which by the way will be the only one I make like it. Took weeks to hand sculpt all the roses.

So this is just my rant. Let Santa be the man he's supposed to be. He can be flashy, gaudy and over the top with color and fashion. He can wear mauve and pastel blue with poinsettias as well as red, black and fur. As long as he still looks like a man in the face and hands. Not Miss. Claus snuck in and is warring his stuff. You take off the beard and put Santa and Miss Claus together and can't tell who is who.


OK folks, let me have it. Don't spare the knives! LOL

[Xmaslilly]

I don't know if I would call it "Santa in Drag"..but it seems there has always been a try to change the look of Santa. Someone got bored with his red and white outfit and started up with the flamboyant apparrel. Prob for some rich person that has to have something different.
I have a "Santa" all in white, I use him to set between 2 angels. They are like my royal court. I don't count him as a Santa, more like his advisor or something. lol
I have a couple Mr and Mrs Santas and they don't look anything alike, but yeah I can see your point. Why would a company go thru all that trouble and money to make a separate face when they can get away with using same for both.

[putrid]

........ Why would a company go thru all that trouble and money to make a separate face when they can get away with using same for both.

It's not the mass produced Santas that I'm ranting about. It's the hand made ones. Over the years I've seen the faces go from looking like an old man to looking like an old woman. Cheek bones are one thing. Any man or woman can have high or large cheek bones. Case in point, the large cheek boned Coca Cola Santas. With the wide forehead and nose bridge it's still easy to tell your looking at a mans face. These features, the eyes, jaw line and overall shape of the face, that are distictive between the sexes. Loose these and no matter what the figure is warring or how long the beard it'll still will look like an old woman.

As Santa grew in popularity and pop culture he was dressed in coats of every color. Even all fur. Red became the one excepted color from the Coca Cola adds. ( i know everybody know this. My head is chuck full of useless information that needs to come out every now and then. LOL ) But when did flowery fabrics and lace come in?

The combo of the two rants above, the loss of masulinity in the face, clothing that is more suited for a victorian doll, is my rant. If folks are going to go threw all the extra work it takes to make a heavily detailed outfit wouldn't it make more sense to make sure the face looks like a man? Or just a simple red over coat with fur trim. Wouldn't it look better if the face under all that white hair looked like a guy? I know it's all artistic expression and taste. For me there's no way a lime green and florescent pink coat would look good on a Santa ( yes, I saw one dressed in these colors. ) Just as one dressed in all black with black fur trim wouldn't look like a good Santa to me. I did make a Santa a few years ago the was red and black. A red coat with black fur. To me it looked more a teddy you'd by your girlfriend or wife for Valentines day. LOL But that's what the folks wanted.

In the end it's all a matter of personal taste. And there's no bashing of any kind intended in this post. It's nothing more than a personal observation intended more for conversation based on point of view.

[bethene]

Putrid, I think the santa we think of bringing toys, going down the chimney, etc., is from the night before Christmas story, and it went from there, the coke Santa is a good example, I love the looks of him by the way, but the "santas" in robes are actually supposed to be ST nicholas, (or Sinder Klass if you happen to be dutch, ) I make St. Nick figures, or old fashioned santas, which ever term you prefer, I buy store bought head, and make the clothes, "body" and toy sack or what ever he is carrying. They always have a "manly" face, I agree, he always should look like a man, I usually use dark colors, I like them best, they look richer, I try to use elegant materials, I do not like the pink, roses, victorian kind of material, personally my self. I must admit, I made one with a black velvet coat with gold metalic design on it with black fur, he actually looked pretty good. I got the velvet on clearance, regular 20 dollars a yard, for like 3 bucks a yard, couldn't pass it up! As St. Nickolas, he can wear different clothes, what ever he put on that day! LOL! If I were to make Santa Claus, I definately would make him with a red suit and white trim. I have always been going to make one, but need to figure out how to make him stand on his own!

[CandyCane]

You take off the beard and put Santa and Miss Claus together and can't tell who is who.

Lol, take the pants off instead ;)

[putrid]

LMAO CandyCane. I guess it depends on how much sculpting someone really wants to do on a Santa doll. LOL

Bethene, be really cool to see some of your work. Sounds like your project using black turned out better than mine. I agree totally with the materials. The better the quality the better looking the artwork. When you make your Santas do you add hair to the heads or just leave them like they are?

I've yet to make a Santa with pants. Only made them with a long outer coat over a long robe. Use a 2x4 screwed to a oval of plywood for the armature. And because I can't really sculpt he's always been warring mittens. The easy way out. LOL.

I'll see if I can't get a scanner to work with this computer. Probably be easier than trying to take pictures of shiny pictures. LOL If I can get things to work I'll upload some pics on the small web site.

[bethene]

I use a ceramic head, with painted hair and beard, don't add my own, it usually looks too goofy, in my mind. The heads come with hands too.Other wise mine would be wearing mittens too!! I started out buying the heads at craft stores, but the past few years haven't been able to find any, that goes for angel heads and good ceramic wings too. I found a site on line that sent me a catalog, that was about 3 years ago now, can't remember the name, i have it around here some where. I bought a bunch at once, haven't used them all yet. I don't have any pictures of them, that was before I had a digital camera, I still have the black dressed one, it is packed away, I will try to get it out some time. I was always going to make one for my son, so if I do I will be sure to take pictures! Of my angels too. For a while, I found Santa head at Big Lots, years ago. Those heads came with ceramic boots. I have the boots left, but never could figure out how to make him stand in them! Different types of glue didn't work. But thinking now(did you see the light bulb pop up?) I could maybe use clay,(see, being a haunter paid off, I never thought of that before , I use clay for prop heads) make it like he is standing in snow, and imbed them in the clay, hmmm,,, I may have to look up the santa boots, and my red fabric.

[putrid]

Totally cool Bethene. Getting supplies can really suck. We used to have a craft store to the east of us that sold Chrsitmas stuff all year. They closed. I think they were called "Ben Franklen's". Looked it up on line and all you get is an add for where they're located.

After going threw old photos for an hour or more I've learned that my x has all the pictures of Santas that I've done. I have one or two shots of them way in the back ground. Not anything you can really see. So I did the next best thing and took some pics of the two remaining Santa faces I sculpted.


http://home.earthlink.net/~jazzfusion/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_0412facesoo1.jpg

The one to the right isn't finished. I bake and paint the eyes first. Then sculpt them into place. The one on the right also has some damage to it. I use Sculply polymer clays and mix my own skin tones. ( black and orange with lots of white and if needed a touch of red.)

The other two shots can be seen at

http://home.earthlink.net/~jazzfusion/id29.html

[CandyCane]

Wow putrid, I'm very impressed with your sculpting skills!

[Xmaslilly]

well I guess that is why there is that saying "Santas likeness is in the eye of the maker...."
not everyone will like all but most will like some.
LOL

[putrid]

Total thanks CandyCane. But compared to yours and Sandy Claws work I just push clay around.

LOL Xmaslilly. and some are scarier than others.

[bethene]

good job, Putrid, they look great, , you push clay around well!! I remember Ben Franklins, I actually bought my first Santa heads and Angel heads and wings there, I had forgotten that , I miss that store, you could find basically any craft thing there you wanted.They had somethings alittle different than other places.

[putrid]

And Ben Franklen's was always busy. No matter what time of day I showed up the store was full of folks. Don't know why they closed. Thanks again for the compliments folks. I don't really sculpt. I really do push the clay around till I get it to look that way. LOL


and now back to the rant. LOL

I know there are differences in the way folks see or like to interpret Santa. But what about when the interpretation becomes completely unrecognizable? The only way you can tell it's a Santa is the name is in the title. I've seen Santa's offered on the net who's hats are taller than the body. They make this big curl and come to a point. Sometimes with bells on the end. Made entirely of bright and very shiny fabrics and covered with flowers. Looking more like a garden gnome meant to be hung off a tree branch or cloths line. It's my opinion that not everything with a white beard is a Santa. And for me the one and worst representation of a Santa is in a bomber's jacket flying a WW1 bi-plain. Might as well be holding a gun. No I take that back. The absolute worst Santa I've ever saw was in a store. He was depicted as an alcoholic. A very realistic sculpture of a very drunk overweight old man. Glad to say it didn't sell. So I've gone form 'is it a man or woman' to gnomes and alcoholics. Think that about covers it. LOL Well this is my rant and because I'm an opinionated old fart I'll probably rant some more later. LOL

[bethene]

Be my guest, Putrid!! Rant away, that's what we are here for!!! I personally do not like the fishing or hunting Santas. Or fish and fishing poles , for that matter, ornaments. It is my personal opinion,, a mini rant if you will, but I just don't get it. I wouldn't like a drunk(??!!) looking Santa either, that is horrible!

[putrid]

I'm glad to say no one else liked that Santa either. It was one of a few that didn't sell in this store/craft mall thing. At any price.

Well now, if you want to start a mini rant. LOL I don't like most quick and easy crafts. Five minuets and a whole .50 cents later and you have something that looks like it took five minuets to do. The wife and I went to a craft show put on by our own "Warren County Fine Arts Guild". Fancy name for a bunch of folks hooked on hot glue and straws. LOL At this show was a display called silk angles someone had done. As soon as the wife and I laid eyes on it we both were laughing so hard we were in tears. I kid you not. Completely unmistakable. Every one of them looked like a full erection in white silk underware. And there was a tree full of them. Somebody took the time to make these. Had they not put a sign with them to tell me what they were supposed to be I'd of walked away thinking someone had a real sense of humor. LOL Let's face it folks. If what you've made doesn't even come close to looking like what it's supposed to be, it's not. End up looking like an advertisement for Viagra on your Christmas tree.

[Sickie Ickie]

A feminine Santa? I don't know what you are talking about. Personally, I'm making a Santa out of tampons. :D

Back to reality, heh, I really have no problem with showing Santa out of the typical setting of Christmas- like him doing hobbies, etc. As an actor I find it adds a bit of 3-D depth to his character.

And hey, on that note, if Santa wants to dress in drag, well- we all have our skeletons. LOL!

[bethene]

I don't always mind Santa doing other things, i guess, but the fisherman thing, I just don't like. But thats whats great about it, every one has their own verson what they think is beautiful, with their Santa's and tree's, I personally like fancier rather than rustic. But have a friend that loves plainer, more country-ish style.

[Sickie Ickie]

I like my Santas fancy and my furnature rustic. :)

[putrid]

It's kinda funny talking about being 'countryish'. I gruw up in a very rural area. In my entire childhood ( what I remember of it LOL) I never saw a grape vine wreath. Never saw a really cutesy cow or pig or cartoonish farm animal used as decorations. No over stitched quilty looking or ripped up, poorly made, patched anything. ANYWHERE. That's about as real country as putting a hub cap and used McDonnell's drink cup on your mantle and calling it 'the city look'. It's all fake. Every bit of it.

As far as Santa depicted doing other things that's fine with me. But in reality if you didn't have a beforehand notion of the artwork being Santa it'd just look like an overweight old man with a beard. I've seen plenty of ornaments depicting Santa with lots of jobs. Doctor, fireman, policeman, and the like. Have yet to see him as a machine operator in a factory. Kinda feel left out. LOL

[Sickie Ickie]

you forgot the pane of glass in his hand! :p

[putrid]

Did you mean pain? LOL I'd be hard to imagine Santa flipping full size shower doors over his head all night.

[Sickie Ickie]

Ii have it on good authority that Santa works in your factory at times. shhhhhhh

[Elvira]

Hmmm how did I miss this... holy smokes! Those faces are beautiful. Do you do any sculpting for halloween Putrid? (yes, I'm trying to buy a service) LOL

[putrid]

Thanks for the compliment Elvira. For Halloween I just do paper mache. Nothing really sculpted. More like let the snot ragging lay where it dries. LOL

[Sickie Ickie]

ya know he's being waaaay modest, right? :)

[Carrie]

I've been reading alot of threads, trying to get to know you guys/gals and all I gotta say is, you peeps are hilarious! I really love this site! LOL

As to Santas in Drag, I tend to agree..maybe because I'm an old fart, but to me, Santa needs to look masculine..with one exception, he needs pointed ears because he's an elf, the head elf, right? The old Coke Santas seem to be what most people have in their heads about what he's supposed to look like but the St. Nicks' wear long flowing robes, which is cool too. But I really don't like seeing Santa's face looking like a woman's face with a beard. Androgeny is okay with me (I'm equal opportunity all the way) but not when it comes to Santa Claus, he's a guy so he should look like one, not like a painted fop. Stangest Santa I ever saw was wearing a cod piece, football shoulder pads, and a chain mail dago-t..a cross between Santa Claus and the Road Warrior..at a craft show, needless to say it didn't sell.

[Elvira]

ya know he's being waaaay modest, right? :)

:twisted: hmmm... I probably could guess! LOL

[putrid]

Ok, I'll meet ya'll half way. Call it accidental genius. As long as the word genius is involved I'm ok with it. JK LOL

Carrie, Totally agree with you on the Santa/road worrier sculpture. Glad it didn't sell as well. We could put it and the alky one I saw years ago together and let them duke it out. LOL

[bethene]

Carrie, that sounds so crazy/strange! i too am glad it didn't sell!

[bethene]

Putrid, I think you under estimate your talent!! You make amazing decorations, your secret santa is gona be lucky!!

[Carrie]

Ok, I'll meet ya'll half way. Call it accidental genius. As long as the word genius is involved I'm ok with it. JK LOL

Carrie, Totally agree with you on the Santa/road worrier sculpture. Glad it didn't sell as well. We could put it and the alky one I saw years ago together and let them duke it out. LOL

What I wonder about, is why someone would make Santa into an alcoholic or a Road Warrior? What were they thinking? Who are these people? LOL

Did any of you see the picture that was making the rounds on the internet last year, someone actually hung Santa Claus from a tree in their Christmas display? It was pretty sick..(but I hang a dead man prop every Halloween from our Maple out front, so I guess I shouldn't talk:twisted:)

[putrid]

Didn't catch that one. But I'm guilty of having a sick sense of humor. I had a corps-o-Santa covered in Christmas lights in the window one year. Got pics. I'll have to see if I have them available on this computer.

It started out as a joke from my wife. I had one of my full body corpses standing in the living room and teased about keeping it up for Christmas. So wile I was still asleep ( worked nights ) she put a candy can in it's pants. Later that day we had an insurance guy come over. He and Deb sat down at the kitchen table. Deb said she couldn't understand why he continually looked into the living room. She'd forgotten about the candy cane sticking out of the corpses pants.

[Elvira]

I'm wondering if thsts where the term "sugar daddy" came from? LOL Thats too funny, she sounds like she has a great sense of humour!

[Sickie Ickie]

I'm all for Santa being in different costumes. I don't think he's so sacred that poking a little fun would ruin him. heh

Candy cane down the pants, eh? No wonder so many women like him!

[putrid]

LOL Elvira. Now that's funny.

I totally agree with you Sickie Ickie. But to a point. Artistic freedom does mean anything goes. I just don't agree with the idea of Santa, someone who historically has more to do with kids than adults, being portrayed as a drunk. I've got nothing against Santa being portrayed in any occupation or recreation. But if it's displayed in public it should be done so with the knowledge that it'll be seen by kids. And my other pet peeve, he's got to look like a guy.

The candy can wasn't down in. It' was out in full salute. Somehow it made the toothy grin on that corpse look grinnier. ( if that's a word. LOL) What made the situation even funnier is Deb had forgotten all about the candy cane. So she went right on like nothing was out of the ordinary. Doesn't everybody have what appears to be a real corpse in there living room with candy jammed into it's crouch? LOL

[Carrie]

I think that candy cane in the pants would be really funny to see. I have no problem poking fun at Santa Claus, but having him hung from a tree was just such a shock to see. I'm really open minded..have an "artistic" temperament (aka liberal), so usually just about anything goes, but the dead Santa hanging by the neck grossed even me out.

[Sickie Ickie]

I do have a problem with Santa being hung, tortured, etc . Personally I refuse to use Santa or Klowns in my haunt because I don't want to ruin happy images for kids.

[putrid]

I LOVE using dead clowns in my haunt because it freaks people out big time. I've had folks refuse to go past the dead clown graveyard.

[Sickie Ickie]

My own morals on this comes from when I was a professional Clown for a while, and I saw that some kids were scared because of what society ha done to them. My opinions are like food. I can serve it, but ya don't have to eat it. LOL

[putrid]

The real reason I use clowns in the haunt is because some folks are afraid of them. It's like using spiders, corpses, snakes, bats, rats and a graveyard. Each one of those makes someone uncomfortable or strikes fear. And after all that's what a haunt is for. To manipulate phobias wile giving a person the opportunity to face what frightens them. And have fun in the process.

Sickie Ickie, Unfortuately the reason some of the kids were afraid may have been a phobia. No matter how good of a clown you could have been you would never be able to get past an unreasonable fear like that. I've had adults that were so afraid of the paper mache clowns in my haunt they turned around and went the other way.

[Carrie]

I use one clown in my Halloween display. In 2006, I sequenced my lights and many of the blow molds to This is Halloween from the Nightmare Before Christmas. I know most of you are not into the computer control thing, but its actually very effective at Halloween because you can control what the lights do, when they do it, the intensity, etc. Anyway, the song plays and different parts of the display/haunt turn on depending upon what the lyrics were..so when the part about the clown came on, BOOM flood light hits him. I have a picture if anyone would like to see it? (I know this is a Christmas board, so I don't want to overstep.)

[Sickie Ickie]

LOL Most of us are Haunters, too. So show away! :D

[Carrie]

Okay, a few pictures of my 2006 Halloween. The clown and the hanged man really seemed to bother people, so I left them out in 07. But they'll be back again this year because I love em!

[Sickie Ickie]

a shrine devoted to pumpkin blowmolds, eh? :D

[Carrie]

Sickie, I guess it does look a little like a shrine, doesn't it! LOL But there was also a large graveyard, a bike riding skeleton, animated bats, ghouls, and gargoyles too. The trick or treaters really seemed to get a kick out of it.

[Sickie Ickie]

Sounds great! How did you get the skele to ride the bike?

[putrid]

Sounds great! How did you get the skele to ride the bike?

Tell em it's a great way to keep the weight off. JK LOL

Totally cool pics Carrie. Dig all the Jack-O-Lantern blow molds.

[Elvira]

What a nice pumpkin patch you have! I think your hangman is awesome, you need to bring him back! :D

[Carrie]

Sickie, the skeleton was attached to the bike through the pelvic bones (I drilled through them and zip tied him to the seat). To keep him from flopping all over the place, I used a 6 foot piece of rebar, offset to the side of him, and zip tied him to that. You can't see the rebar but its solid and he doesn't move. His feet were zip tied to the peddles, left his hip, ankles and knee joints loose. We tried rigging a motor up to the back wheel, but failed on that..so I have a friend working on it. The whole idea was to have him come peddling up out of a grave. It worked out okay for the first try, but this year I'm going to really try to get it the way I see it in my head..A skeleton peddling up out of hell from a grave (can I say that here?)

Elvira, I'm going to bring hanging dude back this year..seeing as how he has had a year off! LOL

[Sickie Ickie]

Love the idea of a skele on the bike! Keep us posted on that!

[Elvira]

Oh yeah super idea! I think I need to fly carrie here to build me one!

[bethene]

I love the idea of a skelly on a bike, cool idea, Carrie, love th blow mold pumpkins, I have a small one from when I was a kid (a LONG time ago), a gravestone with skelly peeking over, picked up at the flea market. and a pumpkin with a black cat coming out of the top. Saw a Frankenstein last year, but they wanted too much for it , so left it, now wish I got it!

[Carrie]

Thanks everyone, he was fun to work on. I hope I can get those peddles turning this year? Anyone have any ideas on how to do that? Here's a pretty bad picture of him..but it will give you all an idea. I mounted the back wheel in a fixed frame and never did dig up the lawn, but if I can rig it with a motor, the back tire will be recessed under ground so he looks like he is bursting up from under ground.

[Mistress Muffy]

OH YIPEE!!!!!!!!! HALLOWEEN PICTURES ON THE XMAS FORUM!!!! I LOVE IT!!

That skeleton on the bike is outrageous!! Love the comment about keeping the weight off there Putrid!

Talking about blow molds....heres my rap: I'm from Chicago so in my years of growing up thats pretty much all we saw in the way of decorations unless people built their own displays. My family did not have many cause we did not decorate outside much other than strings of lights & wreaths. But we went every year to look at peoples decorations & the blow molds were the top decoration.

Then I moved out west ( Co. & Ne.) where I saw NO blow molds at all...it was weird. I mean in Chicago all the places that sell xmas stuff have those molds but I could not find them in the west. Then I came here to NC & there is a gal that lives about 2 miles from me....she is a blow mold junky....hahahahha. She has them lined up for both Xmas & Halloween.

The 1st time I saw them it brought a huge smile to my face & now I park in front of her house during the holidays to look at them.....BUT still you do not see that many out here either. Could blow molds be a thing of our past or just something that is about location in the country? Are they a "northern thing"?

Spookineer>>>>>>>How about in California?

Also wanted to add I do have some small blow molds that are from yesteryear & belonged to the family!

Muf

Wait, Wait, Wait........I almost for got....there was one house in North Platte Nebraska that had 100's of blow molds & completely covered the house in them....Oh man How did I forget them!! His molds were most the choir figures but he had a little bit of everything!! It was absolutely amazing what he did....I mean they were attached on shelves he built on the sides of the house & he would put the molds on those shelves. But heck they were all over his roof too! People would come from everywhere to see it!Yup...I almost forgot!!

[Sickie Ickie]

as far as the bike motor, try using a window wiper motor. Plenty of torque and small.

[putrid]

A few pages behind but better late than never. Found the pics of the corpse-o-santa.

The first pic is the living room all decked out. And still all white with a chair where the TV is now.

http://www.christmasfanclub.com/picture.php?albumid=8&pictureid=48


http://www.christmasfanclub.com/picture.php?albumid=8&pictureid=49

The lights on the corpse-o-santa are those big ball ones. He was up before the tree so it was possible to see him threw the big picture window. When the insurance guy saw him all he had on was the hat, pair of jeans and a candy cane. LOL

[bethene]

Putrid, that's so cool!!

[Sickie Ickie]

Love the corpse. :) Pantyhose/latex?

[putrid]

Everything is paper mache. Bones and all. Except the blue jeans, lights, hat and garland. LOL And the teeth are bread clay.

[Sickie Ickie]

Wow! My mind boggles at the amount of hours in work you had to have done!

[Elvira]

Once again, amazing stuff!

[Carrie]

Putrid, that is awesome! How long did it take you to make him?

[Mistress Muffy]

Putrid your house looks so nice for Xmas....ha!! those big balls!! Thats the lights I use for my main tree in my house! Ace hardware still sells them at xmas & aunt sends them to me in a case. I love that skeleton!!

Muf

[putrid]

Thanks for the compliments folks. It takes about two weeks to make a paper mache corpse. Mostly waiting around for layers to dry. Believe it or not that's the hardest part of making one. Waiting for it to dry. LOL Got the how-to on my Halloween web site.

Thanks Mistress Muffy. We used mini's, and C7s on the tree. Including bubble lights, frosted lights and others. The x took off with all the lights so I'm starting over on the collection. Don't think we have an Ace Hardware around here anymore but perhaps someone else will sell them next year.

[Carrie]

Putrid are there a particular kind of light you're looking for? I have thousands of lights here and no big deal to send you some? Let me know!